oppositional defient disorder and autism

[lorrained]

Hi,My daughter has recently been diagnosed with oppositional defient disorder and autism, and i would like to hear from parents whose children also have this diagnosis.

[Lucas]

Hello, I'm on the spectrum myself. Can you tell me why the professional thinks she has Oppositional Defiant Disorder? It just seems to becoming more common that very young children are being DXed with this.

[AutMom]

Interesting combination for dx. I am wondering if you feel the odd is accurate. How old is your daughter?

[rCARBEE]

How do you know if they have ODD. What does it exactly mean? My children (both of them) are very oppositional defiant. One is older (16) and went through school in the gifted program. The other has PDD-NOS (age 4). The only difference in the two when they are young is that I could reason with my daughter more. Also my son has a language delay and is more obsessive. My daughter lined up things when she was young. It was like I was talking to someone older. At 4 she taught herself to read. She had obsessive interest. She gets bored easily. She excels in Music, Drawing, Poems, and Dance. They both had temper tantrums easily. Mikey though is in a class by himself where anything will set him off. He also has a limited food interest. There are many similarities in the two. She was always shy but lately has seemed to understand more about socializing. She does not let anyone push her over. Very strong willed for both of them.

[lorrained]

Many thanks for your replies. My daughter is 4 years of age and at first the doctors thought she had learnt behaviour as she has a six year old autistic brother. We disputed that as her behaviours are totally different to her brothers. The doctors then said they thought she had aspergers syndrome. Now she has been labeled ODD and her case file closed at the local mental health unit she was attending and we have been offered 8 sessions with the local child behaviour intervention initative ie positive parenting skills, ignoring bad behaviour, star charts and good behaviour reward schemes is what they promote all of which we have tried for the last 4 years with failure. Since she started nursery school her temper tantutms,obbsessional behaviour has gotten worse and she has started to soil herself and recently urinate in the street, she sleeps for 4 hours a night with the help of 6mg of melatoin and she can not keep still..... any ideas what i can do to help her.... thanks

[AutMom]

lorraine - Could she have yeast overgrowth? Has she been tested for metals? Something must be going on...Poor kid...Hope you get some real answers soon.

You may also want to post your message to Braintalk Communities Autism Forum for more ideas:

http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=91

[vettech]

My son is six, Autistic, and now diagnosed with the ODD as well. His eating habits are so bad he ended up hospitalized for "failure to thrive." He is now on a feeding tube. We are waiting for his Behavioral Plan to be designed, and he is going to a feeding clinic at a Children's Hosptital in November. This kid becomes violent instantly. A broken video, telling him "NO." This is a hard way to live.

[AutMom]

A broken video or being told "no" were very difficult for my son when he was little. We stopped using the word "no" since "no" to him was like saying "never."

I hope they can figure out and supplement (or whatever) to correct his "failure to thrive." Good luck, and keep us posted.

[vettech]

Yes, my son has had 1 solid bowel movement his entire life. That was when he was in the hospital and did not eat anything for ten days. It stands to reason that his diet, feeding disorder, and behaviors are all linked. It's been almost a year, and they are just now getting this. He sees an allergist next. Getting doctors to do ANYTHING is exasperating. Since my son has 7 to 10 loose bowel movement per day, I can't even potty train him. Thanks for your interest, I will keep you posted.

[AutMom]

[QUOTE=vettech]Getting doctors to do ANYTHING is exasperating. .[/QUOTE]Because of this, many of us are trying to find our own answers.

[Lucas]

...Which allows Autistics like myself to step in and answer some of the more complicated aspects of Autistic mentality(doctors don't even touch on mentality).

I can tell you that Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a crock of $h!T; though most Pychiatrists would DX me with it for saying that, but that is exactly my point. It's not a disorder; if it was a disorder than that would mean that it wasn't normal behaviour. But depending on the situation and circumstances at the time, it will of course be normal, it's just that few are able to see things from the child's point of view.

Vettech, I think your son is distressed by the state of his bowels- if you can fix it, other things will proberbly fix themselves. I think he is picky about what he eats because he may know what foods cause his stomach to hurt and make his bowels go like that.

[lorrained]

many thanks, for your replies on my thread of ODD. I do think this label is being used for young children with autistic /asperger behaviours. My daughter is now having 8 weeks behavioural intervention were she has to stick to the rules of the house, she gets a verbal warning, then we count to three and then time out. Has had some sucess but her anxiety levels have increased and is tearful most of the time, which i dont think should be the case if its a case of naughty behaviour. Oh well another 4 weeks to go and then back to paedicatrican...... :o

[Adam's MoM]

Reading all of your responses I see alot of my son in your kids'. He is 4 1/2. No one has ever mentioned ODD to me. Without his medication(we have settled on guanfacine-lesser of evils)he would rage for over an hour for the most minor thing. His newest tactic is to hit and kick. It's his first reaction to "no" or to anything that doesn't go his way. His poor brother(6) is afraid of him. If we don't curb this behavior he's really going to be able to hurt us. The eating thing is tough and he is just now starting to have regular BM's in last few months. The only protein he gets is from peanut butter. He won't touch meat or vegetables. Should I be giving him high potency vitamins?

[AutMom]

High potency vitamins can be helpful in many cases, however, the trick with young children is getting them to take them.

[Adam's MoM]

Are they in pill form? I am very lucky to have taught my son to take pills.

[AutMom]

[QUOTE=Adam's MoM]Are they in pill form? I am very lucky to have taught my son to take pills.[/QUOTE]Yes, you can get them in pill form. Many of us use Kirkman supplements such as Super NuThera. My son takes Spectrum Complete (for his multivitamin) from Kirkman.

[Adam's MoM]

Other than the obvious....they get nutrients...what are the advantages of high potency vitamins?

[AutMom]

One reason: High potency may be needed when there is a deficiency.

For example, my son takes Methyl B12 1000mcg because his Organic Acid Test indicated a B12 deficiency.

[BeccaG]

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a diagnosis that is no more than a description of behaviors and has no one identified neurological source. Its kind of like telling your doctor you feel like throwing up, so he diagnoses you with nausea. Accurate, perhaps, but where does it take you?

So kids "with ODD" have difficulty taking directions, and tend to tell authority figures "no!" I am sure that is not surprising to any parent who's child has such a label.

It can be used as a way of organizing your thinking, and the thinking of other adults in the child's life such that direct confrontation is not the first choice for dealing with the child, pointing out choices (good, bad and indifferent) would be a good plan and building up a tollerance of other peoples preferences is a priority (walking on eggshells tends to make it worse).

There is a lot about having some form of autism that can set a person up for behavior that could be labeled ODD. In the case of a person with autism it may arise from difficulty articulating an urgent need that is not understood by the other because it is out of their experience. To the extent that the person with autism can express what they do need rather than simply refuse, the need of the authority for the label diminishes